[squid]

In an attemt to phase out bigotry, Rangers are to hand out song books featuring Rangers songs that dont have any religion or bigotry in them. Now for me they have jumped the gun a bit. I mean thier assuming the Rangers fans will actually be able to Read these books in the first place!

But fair play to them, It's good to see action being taken by the club and hopefully it will work.

[Joe]

Any measures to stamp out bigotry would be welcomed by myself. For too long both sides of the OF profited from this distasteful side to them and it about time that they realised that this ancient way of thinking needs to be phased out.

[Jedi Knight]

totally agree. that is the other distasteful part of sectarianism here, too many profit from it. Take the tabloids for example, without the bigotory that goes with the OF, they would have nothing to write about and the likes of McNee and co would be out of a job.

[goldenHuddlestone]

But you do need to find a line I'm not sure3 if I know this story right so feel free to shoot me down but is not a Rangers goalkeeper being investigated for blessing himself during a match.

[squid]

I dont know about that. But I am glad that teams are trying to get rid of bigotry. I want to get bacj ti hating Rangers fans for the right reasons, ...because thier Rangers fans!!!

[Joe]

I know Boruc is being investigated for something he did in an Old Firm matcgh in Feb this year. Not sure what it was but it would be typical of someone to bless themselves or play a flute to try and wind up the other fans.

[squid]

we do need to watch that things dont go too far. We dont want the pc brigade coming in and ruining things. Borus is being investigated for blessing himself. Well, ofr me that is his right becausehe believes by doing this his god will grant him good fortune on the pitch I.E he is not doing it to start trouble. I can honestly say that i am the least relisious person in the world, but you cant go reporting people for carrying out thier faith. the problem is where Celtic fans go spouting IRA stuff (which more often than not they know nothing about) or if Rangers fans go spouting UVF stuff (which more often than not they know nothing about). Its actually went past the catholic prodestant thing, its more to do with the political climate in Ulster.

Ask any Old Firm fan if thwey know what happened at the battle of Boyne and all you will see is bewildered looking face..

[PLG NO1]

Rangers have been anti bigotry for more years than I care to remember. I have witnessed first hand stewards ejecting people for singing obscene songs - more than your lot my freind.

Originally Posted by squid

In an attemt to phase out bigotry, Rangers are to hand out song books featuring Rangers songs that dont have any religion or bigotry in them. Now for me they have jumped the gun a bit. I mean thier assuming the Rangers fans will actually be able to Read these books in the first place!

It is our schooling, we are taught how to read AND write.

[squid]

Originally Posted by PLG NO1

I have witnessed first hand stewards ejecting people for singing obscene songs - more than your lot my freind.

This is how bad it gets with Rangers and Celtic, there is a rivalry with everything. Even when discussing a common social problem in Scotland it gets to the case where the fans can argue over which club is more anti bigotry than the other! Personally I'm not going to get into that. I would rather complimant Rangers for the action that they have taken and i would hope that the Celts will take action like this in the future.

Personally, I gave up my season book because of the vile I heard in the stadium. I really didnt like the fact that I saw fathers saying this stuff when their sons were there to hear it. Its a huge problem with both clubs and education is the only way to stop it.

Rangers and Cerltic should always remain rivals, however it should be about football.

[beartons]

Originally Posted by squid

we do need to watch that things dont go too far. We dont want the pc brigade coming in and ruining things. Borus is being investigated for blessing himself. Well, ofr me that is his right becausehe believes by doing this his god will grant him good fortune on the pitch I.E he is not doing it to start trouble. I can honestly say that i am the least relisious person in the world, but you cant go reporting people for carrying out thier faith. the problem is where Celtic fans go spouting IRA stuff (which more often than not they know nothing about) or if Rangers fans go spouting UVF stuff (which more often than not they know nothing about). Its actually went past the catholic prodestant thing, its more to do with the political climate in Ulster.

Ask any Old Firm fan if thwey know what happened at the battle of Boyne and all you will see is bewildered looking face..

i dont agree,blessing is a catholic trait,and protestant s dont like this! as thet do not believe in the catholic faith! if we have to get rid of sectarianism,it all has to stop! if you bless yourself,do it in the dressing room! i personally think all religion is the cause of war and greed,believe in god by all means, but leave their religion off the field! just my tuppance worth!

[goldenHuddlestone]

But surely its up to someone's freedom of speech to bless himself what about all the players who have pictures of Jesus on their shirts under their kit. I haven't seen this Boruc thing if he waas doing it to deliberatly rile the fans then thats out of order but if it is his religon then he is well within his own rights to do it

[beartons]

Originally Posted by goldenHuddlestone

But surely its up to someone's freedom of speech to bless himself what about all the players who have pictures of Jesus on their shirts under their kit. I haven't seen this Boruc thing if he waas doing it to deliberatly rile the fans then thats out of order but if it is his religon then he is well within his own rights to do it

ok then,well bring back all the old sectarian songs then,cos personally it angers me,and thousands others! as its their freedom of speech! why bless yourself in front of thousands of people,when you can do it inside,? i personally hate what the catholic faith is and stands for,just like all religions! its all bollox! people should know that by now! its a football match,not fookin mass!

[Jedi Knight]

but surely this reply in itself could be contrued as bigoted as there is clear lack of tolerance of someone elses' beliefs, making you just as bad as the bigots. Personally i don't have much time either for organised religion and don't feel it has any place in football but ultimately everyone has the chioce and as long as they are not either harming me or my family then i don't mind.
When it comes to players blessing themselves ( something that players all over the world have done for over a century) who really is the bigot, the person doing the blessing or the small minded, insular and intolerant oaf who is offended by it and can't rise above it? the fact we are making a big issue out of this only serves to show Scotland, to the wider world, as an intolerant and ignorant nation.

[Jedi Knight]

while i am at it i'd like to say that what happened to Paul le Guen at Tyncastle was carried out by mindless thugs who in no way represent true Celtic fans. I consider myself a Scotsman first and Celtic fan 2nd and consequently i'm horrified and ashamed (as a Scotsman) at the actions of those w***ers. What happened is symptomatic of a wider social problem in Britain (i.e yob behaviour). \what must he think of Scotland now. Hopefully decent people in this country get the opportunity to show him, as well as all visitors to this country, how beautiful Scotland can be.

[goldenHuddlestone]

It's one thing to bless yourself because thats your personal religon than to be part of a thousands strong mob of people that are throwing scorn on the other groups religions.

Boruc was doing what he felt was right because that was for his religon surely Rangers fans that Secteraian chants which are not for their religon but against anither know they are in the wrong.

Of course I'm not saying bring back Secterain chants but surely you can see how secterainan chants differ from what Boruc did

[squid]

The problem has got so complex because it is not just religious, it is political. Prodestants and Catholics hate each other in the west of Scotland. Yet this is largely down to the brittish occupation of Northern Ireland.

I was watching Dispatches tonight and it was talking about the interaction of the islamic community in the UK and the key word throughout was the word tolerance. Yes there are disagreements over peoples beliefs, however if some beleieves that he is asking for his gods help by blessing himself is it rto much to ask that people respect that. They dont have to beleieve it themselves or feel sullied by it. Just let the dude beleieve what he wants.

[goldenHuddlestone]

Couldnt of said it better myself

[PLG NO1]

Originally Posted by squid

The problem has got so complex because it is not just religious, it is political. Prodestants and Catholics hate each other in the west of Scotland. Yet this is largely down to the brittish occupation of Northern Ireland.

I was watching Dispatches tonight and it was talking about the interaction of the islamic community in the UK and the key word throughout was the word tolerance. Yes there are disagreements over peoples beliefs, however if some beleieves that he is asking for his gods help by blessing himself is it rto much to ask that people respect that. They dont have to beleieve it themselves or feel sullied by it. Just let the dude beleieve what he wants.

I suppose that you were one of the few that were not angered by Gascoigne in his imaginary flute playing? Did that not anger you?? Catholics blessing themselfs do the same to me.

There is no need to bring religion onto a football pitch. Blessing himself, he could do that in his dressing room, say his prayers and not annoy anyone. I will tolerate many people, but not when they directly try to antagonise me and my family.

Now we have upped our bid to become sectariansim free, we are proud to be a British club, unlike our city rivals who still keep all ties to ireland.

[squid]

Originally Posted by PLG NO1

I suppose that you were one of the few that were not angered by Gascoigne in his imaginary flute playing? Did that not anger you?? Catholics blessing themselfs do the same to me.

Now we have upped our bid to become sectariansim free, we are proud to be a British club, unlike our city rivals who still keep all ties to ireland.

How the hell can you honstley put someoone playing an imaginary flute, which is in NO way religious, next to someone belssing themselves. It is part of an organisation that annually celebrates a war in which a largely prodestant army (lead byWilliam Of Orange) beat a catholic army (lead by the Catholic King James). The playing of the flute is a link to this. Now how can you relate someone belssing themselves as way to insight trouble?

Im not religious, i was raised as Prodestant because the nearest school was prodestant but i have never been enraged by something as simple as someone blessing themselves. We live in hugely diverse multi-cultural society and ifsomebody blessing themselves upsets you then Ranger FC have a hell of a job on thier hands trying to educate you. would you be offended if a muslim said "assalamu alaikum" to another Muslim while you were around. Grow up!!!